ONE on ONE: It's the demography, stupid

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Article/book #: 7954
Title: ONE on ONE: It's the demography, stupid
By: Ruthie Blum (interviewer)   Arnon Sofer (interviewee)  
Published in: Jerusalem Post
Date of issue: 10 May 2004
Topic(s) addressed:

  1. The text of this Jerusalem Post article, which appears to have been taken down by the JP, is reprinted in one of the contributions to the discussion of the report in this document

  2. In this Ha'aretz article in November 2006, Tom Segev quoted some of the utterances made by Sofer in this Jerusalem Post article.
  3. Saree Makdisi critically comments on this interview in this article
Other related item(s)
Commentary (by JB):

This article, which contains important information and was cited by several other authors, seems to have been moved by the Jerusalem Post from its original address. Luckily, several copies of it still exist at various places online.

Additional Commentary (by PdeR):

A Conversation with one of Israel's Dr. Strangeloves...

»You’re considered a demographic prophet of doom. How did that happen?
In 1970, as a young geographer, I decided to focus on military geography – or geopolitics. Then, while working on the national masterplan for the north, I became obsessed with the problem of the Israeli Arabs that I saw developing in the Galilee. In retrospect, this had an effect on where the Jewish hilltop communities were later established. Many people said I was crazy. But since then, they have come to realize I was right.
In 1975, I began researching the problem more seriously. That’s when I grasped that the issue is about demography. I began taking members of the defense establishment to the Galilee to show them what was happening. Slowly, I created awareness.
After that, I started bringing the same people to the Seamline. For the past 15 years, every week, once or twice a week, I accompany the highest-ranking defense officials there.
In 1988, I published a pamphlet in which I raised the question of whether Zionism is a dream or not. The 1,000 copies of the pamphlet disappeared immediately. Arafat received a copy of it, and then, for the first time, said that the Palestinian womb is a biological weapon.
It was around that time that I began to say publicly that Israel’s days were numbered. After researching the subject I concluded there was no way Oslo would work, and I told Bibi Netanyahu that Oslo had to be stopped immediately. Bibi read my material, and quoted it in his book, A Place Under the Sun, in a chapter on demography.«

»Will Israel be prepared to fight this war?
First of all, the fence is not built like the Berlin Wall. It’s a fence that we will be guarding on either side. Instead of entering Gaza, the way we did last week, we will tell the Palestinians that if a single missile is fired over the fence, we will fire 10 in response. And women and children will be killed, and houses will be destroyed. After the fifth such incident, Palestinian mothers won’t allow their husbands to shoot Kassams, because they will know what’s waiting for them.
Second of all, when 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.

While CNN has its cameras at the wall?
If we don’t kill, we will cease to exist. The only thing that concerns me is how to ensure that the boys and men who are going to have to do the killing will be able to return home to their families and be normal human beings.«

»Voluntary transfer?
Yes. And Gaza is going to be such a disaster that it will be beyond our capacity to help. There will have to be large-scale international aid. The US will have to pressure Egypt to cede land. And – though I never thought I’d hear myself say this – Israel will have to relinquish the Jordan Valley.«

Quotations from this item:
Arnon Sofer:  "How will the region look the day after unilateral separation? The Palestinians ... "
Arnon Soffer:  "First of all, the fence is not built like the Berlin Wall. It’s a fence that we ... "
Arnon Sofer:  "First of all, the fence is not built like the Berlin Wall. It’s a fence that we ... "
Arnon Sofer:  "[I]f we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill [people in ... "

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